柳田 真 / Makoto Yanagida #5

――デモに来られる……あの、官邸前だと、なんでしょう、みんないろんなとこから来るじゃないですか。そこに来られる、若い人は多いのか、わからないですけど……

柳田:いやいや、今はほとんど中年層ですよ。年配層がたくさんいますね。若い人は本当に少ないんじゃないかなあ。タンポポ社から行ってる人も30-40人ぐらい行ってますけども、そうですねー……皆さん程度に若い人は本当に一人か二人……

――若い人がもっと来たらいいなとかは?

柳田:そう思います。非常に思います。

――それは、なんでですか?

柳田:うーん……。若い人に立ち上がって欲しいですけど、ここの日大生なんか見てても、本当に関心が薄い感じですね。ビラまいても、あんまり受け取らないもんね。社会全体が、やっぱりもう一歩ですね……僕が二十歳の時は60年安保の時でしたから、大学中がビラを配り、そのころなんて携帯とかはないですよ? スマートフォンとかもないんだけれども、僕も早稲田だったけれども、1000-2000のデモ隊が出ましたからね。

――大学から?
柳田:うん。最盛期は3000くらい出たんじゃないかなあ。学生だけで国会10万人ぐらい取り巻いたもん。60年安保の時。今を去る……50年ちょっと前。デモに行かないのはおかしいくらい、クラスが盛り上がりましたね。私もまだその時……19歳か。髪の毛もまだ黒かった(笑)。それはドイツの盛り上がったときみたいな、そういう雰囲気でしたよ。60年安保の時はね。安保で立ち上がった。原発じゃないけどね。

――ではその時、安保に行かれてた方が官邸前に……?

柳田:(笑)いや、多少僕と同じ年代の人は、そういう経験があるでしょうね。でもあれ、官邸前行動は、この間もミサオ・レッドウルフさんとお話ししましたけれども、中高年が支えてますよ。60代が中心で。若い人はほんの、パラパラパラぐらいでね。もうちょっと来てほしいんですけど。


―The people who come to the demos……well, in the case of Kanteimae, what’s it, everyone comes from various places, don’t they? I don’t know if there are young people coming……

Yanagida: No, no, now it is almost middle age people. There are lots of elderly people. I think there really aren’t a lot of young people. The people who go from Tanpoposha, there are about 30-40 people, but, well…young people like you are really maybe on or two..

―Well, Do you think it would be great if more young people came or..?

Yanagida: I think so. I very much think so.

―Why is that?

Yanagida: Hmm, ….I want young people to stand up, but looking at the students of Nichidai, here,  I feel that there interest is really weak. Even when we offer them handbills, they don’t seem to want them. After all, society as a whole is one step…when I was 20, during the 60 security treaty, the whole university gave out handbills, at that time, we didn’t have mobile phones etc. right? We didn’t have smart phones etc, I was in Waseda, but there were 1000-2000 demo groups.

―From university?

Yanagida: Yes. At the climax, there were maybe around 3000. Only counting students, about 10 000 people surrounded the Diet. At the time of the 60 security treaty. Now is……in the 50s. The classes rose that much so as not going to demos was strange. I was at that time…maybe 19. That time, my hair was still black (laugh) The atmosphere was like the rise in Germany. At the time of the 60 security treaty. Because of the treaty, we rose. It wasn’t nuclear power plants.

―But at the people from that time,.. Kanteimae?

Yanagida: (laugh) No, probably the people in my generation at Kanteimae may be the ones who experienced these days.  But, Kanteimae, I talked to Misao Redwolf-san recently as well, but middle age and old people are supporting it. With a core of people in their 60s. Young people are sparse. I want some more of them to come, though.